Modem with NAT firewall, do I also need a software firewall?

"Edric" <none.DeleteThis@nobody.net> wrote in message
news:ooo4949u26vfu7rmfajel0fb1kokoppujb@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:25:15 -0400, Mikey
> <Mikey.DeleteThis@not_here.not_there_either.nope> wrote:
>
>>Recently purchased a Zoom 5660 modem / router. It has a
>>Network Address Translation firewall and Stateful Packet
>>Inspection. The computer it's installed on also has
>>Zonealarm (free version) installed. Is Zonealarm still
>>neccesary with this modem or can it be uninstalled?
>
> NAT is not a firewall.
>

A NAT firewall is.

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/firewall.htm

Only a 13 year old would shoot his gob off without actually checking that
what he is posting is correct.

In article <4892acc7$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net>, wall RemoveThis @privacy.net
says...
>
> "Edric" <none RemoveThis @nobody.net> wrote in message
> news:ooo4949u26vfu7rmfajel0fb1kokoppujb@4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:25:15 -0400, Mikey
> > <Mikey RemoveThis @not_here.not_there_either.nope> wrote:
> >
> >>Recently purchased a Zoom 5660 modem / router. It has a
> >>Network Address Translation firewall and Stateful Packet
> >>Inspection. The computer it's installed on also has
> >>Zonealarm (free version) installed. Is Zonealarm still
> >>neccesary with this modem or can it be uninstalled?
> >
> > NAT is not a firewall.
> >
>
> A NAT firewall is.
>
> http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/firewall.htm
>
> Only a 13 year old would shoot his gob off without actually checking that
> what he is posting is correct.

Walter, NAT does not make a Firewall a Firewall, as a matter of fact,
NAT, in a 1:1 mode does not restrict ANY traffic. Most of the
"Residential" class NAT Routers can't/don't do 1:1 NAT. NAT is a
"Routing" method and not a "Firewall" method.

Yes, you can believe the hype, the "looks like it's a firewall" group,
you can fall for the media/marketing hype about how it's a firewall, but
it's not - NAT is a means to move traffic (in the case of a RESIDENTIAL
device) from a multiple LAN IP's through a single Public IP, the benefit
of doing a 1:MANY NAT is that it blocks unsolicited INBOUND connections.

In most cases your NAT router has no idea of any difference between SMTP
traffic and HTTP traffic, it only knows that a port is being used and
doesn't care what traffic is flowing over that port.

Your NAT router, in most setups doesn't have a clue if you're bring
attacked and just blissfully lets the attacker keep hitting your NAT
Appliance....

I like the PN website, it's a good site for noobs, and NAT is a really
good thing for residential users, it's the minimum that EVERY
residential users should have....

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free RemoveThis @rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

"Mikey" <Mikey.RemoveThis@not_there.not_there_either.nope> wrote in message
news:48924A17.94C92912@not_there.not_there_either.nope...
>
>
> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>
>> "Mikey" <Mikey.RemoveThis@not_here.not_there_either.nope> wrote in message
>> news:4891E119.5075B730@not_here.not_there_either.nope...
>> >
>> >
>> > Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Mikey" <Mikey.RemoveThis@not_here.not_there_either.nope> wrote in message
>> >> news:4891D95B.E6DFA0CF@not_here.not_there_either.nope...
>> >> > Recently purchased a Zoom 5660 modem / router. It has a
>> >> > Network Address Translation firewall and Stateful Packet
>> >> > Inspection. The computer it's installed on also has
>> >> > Zonealarm (free version) installed. Is Zonealarm still
>> >> > neccesary with this modem or can it be uninstalled?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> You do not need Zonealarm unless you like popups to tell you that the
>> >> ISP
>> >> is
>> >> checking that you are still active..
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Mike Hall - MVP
>> >> How to construct a good post..
>> >> http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
>> >> How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
>> >> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
>> >> Mike's Window - My Blog..
>> >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
>> >
>> > I've had Zonealarm installed on that computer for a few years (with a
>> > modem that
>> > didn't have a firewall) and never got any popups from my ISP.
>> >
>>
>> Do you check every entry in the logs?
>>
>> --
>> Mike Hall - MVP
>> How to construct a good post..
>> http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
>> How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
>> Mike's Window - My Blog..
>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
>
> No, I hardly ever check the log, but just did and see there are quite a
> few
> entries there and some could be from my ISP. If I kept seeing popups
> every so
> often it'd be annoying. But since I don't see the popups and they only
> appear
> in the log I don't see what the problem is.
>


Many of the entries in the log will be your ISP polling the IP address. Most
set the firewall to only see critical popups which is all very well except
that the not so critical entries may still be phoning home.

A better way to see if the computer is sending out without any prompts from
you is to use something like Netmeter. Try it..


--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

"Leythos" <void RemoveThis @nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:1217594514_245366@news.usenet.com...
> In article <4892acc7$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net>, wall RemoveThis @privacy.net
> says...
>>
>> "Edric" <none RemoveThis @nobody.net> wrote in message
>> news:ooo4949u26vfu7rmfajel0fb1kokoppujb@4ax.com...
>> > On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:25:15 -0400, Mikey
>> > <Mikey RemoveThis @not_here.not_there_either.nope> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Recently purchased a Zoom 5660 modem / router. It has a
>> >>Network Address Translation firewall and Stateful Packet
>> >>Inspection. The computer it's installed on also has
>> >>Zonealarm (free version) installed. Is Zonealarm still
>> >>neccesary with this modem or can it be uninstalled?
>> >
>> > NAT is not a firewall.
>> >
>>
>> A NAT firewall is.
>>
>> http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/firewall.htm
>>
>> Only a 13 year old would shoot his gob off without actually checking that
>> what he is posting is correct.
>
> Walter, NAT does not make a Firewall a Firewall, as a matter of fact,
> NAT, in a 1:1 mode does not restrict ANY traffic. Most of the
> "Residential" class NAT Routers can't/don't do 1:1 NAT. NAT is a
> "Routing" method and not a "Firewall" method.
>

I think Walter's intention was to prove the resident spam poster, Edric,
wrong. Googling 'NAT Firewall' brings up plenty of hits.

....NO such word as "virii" !!! <VBG>

regards, Richard


"Bob Willard" <BobwBSGS RemoveThis @TrashThis.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:uHF1nO08IHA.1468@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Shenan Stanley wrote:
>> Mikey wrote:
>>
>>>Recently purchased a Zoom 5660 modem / router. It has a
>>>Network Address Translation firewall and Stateful Packet
>>>Inspection. The computer it's installed on also has
>>>Zonealarm (free version) installed. Is Zonealarm still
>>>neccesary with this modem or can it be uninstalled?
>>
>>
>> Shenan Stanley wrote:
>>
>>>Zone Alarm was never necessary in truth.
>>>
>>>The internal Windows XP Firewall would have given you as much
>>>inbound protection as ZoneAlarm.
>>>
>>>My suggestion - save the resources and save your sanity -
>>>disconnect from the Internet, uninstall Zone Alarm, make sure the
>>>Windows XP Firewall is enabled, reconnect to the Internet.
>>
>>
>> Mikey wrote:
>>
>>>But from what I understand, the Windows XP firewall only blocks
>>>incoming traffic, not outgoing, and ZoneAlarm blocks both.
>>
>>
>> Bluntly (IMHO):
>> If you need outgoing protection - you're already messed up.
>
> True enough, but outgoing protection gives you some (relatively) early
> warning
> that your PC has been compromised; without it, you could run for years
> with
> malware phoning home and sending your personal data (e.g., credit card
> info)
> to the Russian Mafia.
>
> And, if you have multiple PCs behind a router, the inbound protection of
> ZA
> (or whatever you like) prevents one compromised PC from spreading its
> virii
> to the other PCs.
>
> I've been using ZAF and ZA$ on my PCs for years. ZA is far better than
> M$'s firewall on XP, and far easier that M$'s firewall on Vista, IMHO.
> --
> Cheers, Bob