(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:32 am
Post subject: Re: VBA/Visio course recommendation? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: microsoft>public>visio>general (more info?)
IMHO VBA merely provides a framework for describing how to work with
information, the challange is in understanding the knowledge space that
you're working in. Regarding VBA, a standard introductory course to visual
basic should offer all that you need . I haven't seen anyone offer a
combination of visual basic focused on office products. Even the Office
Connections Conference usually focus' on word/excel/powerpoint.
Regarding education relative to Visio, I've seen some consulting firms that
offer it. Visio is a very rich environment with a unique set of features and
functions that should be understood first. Where the four primary books that
John mentioned have some VBA code in them, their primary function is to
first teach Visio. There are numerous examples in these forums of those that
have built "smart shapes" using just the shapesheet within the tool and not
adding a lot of code.
Al
"Paul" <Paul.Domaskis.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:94d36e2d-1d5f-418b-aa49-a1ed5f8b33b7@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Thanks for the references, Wapper, John, and Al.
Would you know of any actual courses (possibly multilple days) to get
someone jumpstarted? Sitting down with a book presumes realistic
scheduling and scope of mainline activities (which isn't always in
one's control). In the absence of such, it isn't all that fine to be
doing other stuff (or actually, there is, but there are other things
competing for that time!). However, it is OK to take a time-out to
formally get a jumpstart via courses.
If there are no courses that are visio-oriented, what Excel-oriented
course would minimize the gap in getting started in visio? Would it
be overly presumptuous to also have the criteria of looking for a
course for those who haven't yet picked up VBA on the streets of
Excel, and have a intermediate knowledge of Excel as a spreadsheet
rather than a programming tool? I.e. same degree of knowledge depth
as one might have of older spreadsheet programs such as sc on unix,
Quatro, and older applications on the venerable CBM machines....
On Aug 30, 5:14 pm, "John... Visio MVP" <lancu....DeleteThis@stonehenge.ca>
wrote:
> We were discussing DVS. Graham's books go beyond DVS so they require that
> you are acquianted with DVS.
>
> As to Graham's 2003 version, the SIGNED version is sitting within three
> feet
> of this keyboard, next to his other two books. There is also space next to
> them for his next edition.
>
> John...
>
> "AlEdlund" <edl....DeleteThis@ameritech.net> wrote in message
>
> news:ABF7D93B-F2BD-46D3-9780-CDA8565FA8D2@microsoft.com...
>
>
>
> > John,
> > You missed that Graham wrote one for the 2003 version as well.
> > > > al
>
> > "John... Visio MVP" <lancu....DeleteThis@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
> >news:9EE30B5C-ACCE-464E-933D-883D3D90088E@microsoft.com...
> >> I've been hanging around since before version 1, so I am sort of the
> >> unofficial historian. DVS was part of the official manual that came
> >> with
> >> Visio, back in the old days when software did come with manuals. The
> >> book
> >> was written by the Visio team and Chris Roth, the Visio Guy, had a hand
> >> in it. His name is mentioned in the authors section in the earlier
> >> versions, but that section was dropped by the time the book was updated
> >> for 4.1. (and yes I do have a shelf load of Visio books that came with
> >> the product) One of my early complaints was that the version number did
> >> not appear on the spine.
>
> >> John...
>
> >> "WapperDude" <WapperD....DeleteThis@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >>news:CCC157BA-EC28-4E16-8DCC-99BE614A02A5@microsoft.com...
> >>> Interesting comment about DVS. It rang a bell, and I searched through
> >>> my
> >>> files of antiquity, and yes, I have a paperback book, Developing Visio
> >>> Solutions. It came with Visio Technical 4.1. No author though. Seems
> >>> to
> >>> cover much or most of the basic stuff. The following link will take
> >>> you
> >>> to
> >>> the website version,
> >>>http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa245244(office.10).aspx, which
> >>> is
> >>> under V2002. See my topic referal in 1st post, which includes John's
> >>> website
> >>> -- has a ton of examples.!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:34 am
Post subject: Re: VBA/Visio course recommendation? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
What you say makes much sense, Al. Will seek out a VBA course.
I've tried to track down a PDF copy of "Developing Microsoft Visio
Solutions" to no avail. It would complement the MSDN website quite
nicely, as it is easier to search the whole document for words/
phrases, and presumably has an index. Easier to search than a hard
copy, too (though I have ordered the book). It seems kind of odd that
it isn't online.
On Sep 2, 9:32 am, "AlEdlund" <edl....RemoveThis@ameritech.net> wrote:
> IMHO VBA merely provides a framework for describing how to work with
> information, the challange is in understanding the knowledge space that
> you're working in. Regarding VBA, a standard introductory course to visual
> basic should offer all that you need . I haven't seen anyone offer a
> combination of visual basic focused on office products. Even the Office
> Connections Conference usually focus' on word/excel/powerpoint.
>
> Regarding education relative to Visio, I've seen some consulting firms that
> offer it. Visio is a very rich environment with a unique set of features and
> functions that should be understood first. Where the four primary books that
> John mentioned have some VBA code in them, their primary function is to
> first teach Visio. There are numerous examples in these forums of those that
> have built "smart shapes" using just the shapesheet within the tool and not
> adding a lot of code.
>
> Al
>
> "Paul" <Paul.Domas....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:94d36e2d-1d5f-418b-aa49-a1ed5f8b33b7@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for the references, Wapper, John, and Al.
>
> Would you know of any actual courses (possibly multilple days) to get
> someone jumpstarted? Sitting down with a book presumes realistic
> scheduling and scope of mainline activities (which isn't always in
> one's control). In the absence of such, it isn't all that fine to be
> doing other stuff (or actually, there is, but there are other things
> competing for that time!). However, it is OK to take a time-out to
> formally get a jumpstart via courses.
>
> If there are no courses that are visio-oriented, what Excel-oriented
> course would minimize the gap in getting started in visio? Would it
> be overly presumptuous to also have the criteria of looking for a
> course for those who haven't yet picked up VBA on the streets of
> Excel, and have a intermediate knowledge of Excel as a spreadsheet
> rather than a programming tool? I.e. same degree of knowledge depth
> as one might have of older spreadsheet programs such as sc on unix,
> Quatro, and older applications on the venerable CBM machines....
>
> On Aug 30, 5:14 pm, "John... Visio MVP" <lancu....RemoveThis@stonehenge.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > We were discussing DVS. Graham's books go beyond DVS so they require that
> > you are acquianted with DVS.
>
> > As to Graham's 2003 version, the SIGNED version is sitting within three
> > feet
> > of this keyboard, next to his other two books. There is also space next to
> > them for his next edition.
>
> > John...
>
> > "AlEdlund" <edl....RemoveThis@ameritech.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:ABF7D93B-F2BD-46D3-9780-CDA8565FA8D2@microsoft.com...
>
> > > John,
> > > You missed that Graham wrote one for the 2003 version as well.
> > > > > > al
>
> > > "John... Visio MVP" <lancu....RemoveThis@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
> > >news:9EE30B5C-ACCE-464E-933D-883D3D90088E@microsoft.com...
> > >> I've been hanging around since before version 1, so I am sort of the
> > >> unofficial historian. DVS was part of the official manual that came
> > >> with
> > >> Visio, back in the old days when software did come with manuals. The
> > >> book
> > >> was written by the Visio team and Chris Roth, the Visio Guy, had a hand
> > >> in it. His name is mentioned in the authors section in the earlier
> > >> versions, but that section was dropped by the time the book was updated
> > >> for 4.1. (and yes I do have a shelf load of Visio books that came with
> > >> the product) One of my early complaints was that the version number did
> > >> not appear on the spine.
>
> > >> John...
>
> > >> "WapperDude" <WapperD....RemoveThis@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > >>news:CCC157BA-EC28-4E16-8DCC-99BE614A02A5@microsoft.com...
> > >>> Interesting comment about DVS. It rang a bell, and I searched through
> > >>> my
> > >>> files of antiquity, and yes, I have a paperback book, Developing Visio
> > >>> Solutions. It came with Visio Technical 4.1. No author though. Seems
> > >>> to
> > >>> cover much or most of the basic stuff. The following link will take
> > >>> you
> > >>> to
> > >>> the website version,
> > >>>http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa245244(office.10).aspx, which
> > >>> is
> > >>> under V2002. See my topic referal in 1st post, which includes John's
> > >>> website
> > >>> -- has a ton of examples.!
(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:32 pm
Post subject: Re: VBA/Visio course recommendation? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
Did you want the PDF to make a hardcopy? If just to have an online
reference, and either John or Al may correct me, but this link, which I'll
provide again for convenience,
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa245244(office.10).aspx, does take
you to the DVS material.
What Al says about VBA as a framework is quite true. My VBA experience came
out of Excel. The VBA methodology is same for Visio, but Visio has so much
more, that the specific details soon diverge. Certainly, knowing Visio is
fundamental, but when you start wading thru all of methods, etc. that Visio
has, it can be quite a daunting experience. It's sort of a 3-pronged issue:
1.) know Visio, 2.) know VBA, and 3.) know VBA as it relates to Visio
(because there is a huge "language" set within the confines of Visio).
Fortunately, it breaks down into some standard VBA structure that,
theoretically, makes producing code easier. Lest that scare you, you do not
have to be an expert with infinite knowledge, to be able to produce
reasonable, working code. But, you do need to be patient.
HTH
Wapperdude
"Paul" wrote:
> What you say makes much sense, Al. Will seek out a VBA course.
>
> I've tried to track down a PDF copy of "Developing Microsoft Visio
> Solutions" to no avail. It would complement the MSDN website quite
> nicely, as it is easier to search the whole document for words/
> phrases, and presumably has an index. Easier to search than a hard
> copy, too (though I have ordered the book). It seems kind of odd that
> it isn't online.
>
> On Sep 2, 9:32 am, "AlEdlund" <edl... RemoveThis @ameritech.net> wrote:
> > IMHO VBA merely provides a framework for describing how to work with
> > information, the challange is in understanding the knowledge space that
> > you're working in. Regarding VBA, a standard introductory course to visual
> > basic should offer all that you need . I haven't seen anyone offer a
> > combination of visual basic focused on office products. Even the Office
> > Connections Conference usually focus' on word/excel/powerpoint.
> >
> > Regarding education relative to Visio, I've seen some consulting firms that
> > offer it. Visio is a very rich environment with a unique set of features and
> > functions that should be understood first. Where the four primary books that
> > John mentioned have some VBA code in them, their primary function is to
> > first teach Visio. There are numerous examples in these forums of those that
> > have built "smart shapes" using just the shapesheet within the tool and not
> > adding a lot of code.
> >
> > Al
> >
> > "Paul" <Paul.Domas... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:94d36e2d-1d5f-418b-aa49-a1ed5f8b33b7@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> > Thanks for the references, Wapper, John, and Al.
> >
> > Would you know of any actual courses (possibly multilple days) to get
> > someone jumpstarted? Sitting down with a book presumes realistic
> > scheduling and scope of mainline activities (which isn't always in
> > one's control). In the absence of such, it isn't all that fine to be
> > doing other stuff (or actually, there is, but there are other things
> > competing for that time!). However, it is OK to take a time-out to
> > formally get a jumpstart via courses.
> >
> > If there are no courses that are visio-oriented, what Excel-oriented
> > course would minimize the gap in getting started in visio? Would it
> > be overly presumptuous to also have the criteria of looking for a
> > course for those who haven't yet picked up VBA on the streets of
> > Excel, and have a intermediate knowledge of Excel as a spreadsheet
> > rather than a programming tool? I.e. same degree of knowledge depth
> > as one might have of older spreadsheet programs such as sc on unix,
> > Quatro, and older applications on the venerable CBM machines....
> >
> > On Aug 30, 5:14 pm, "John... Visio MVP" <lancu... RemoveThis @stonehenge.ca>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > We were discussing DVS. Graham's books go beyond DVS so they require that
> > > you are acquianted with DVS.
> >
> > > As to Graham's 2003 version, the SIGNED version is sitting within three
> > > feet
> > > of this keyboard, next to his other two books. There is also space next to
> > > them for his next edition.
> >
> > > John...
> >
> > > "AlEdlund" <edl... RemoveThis @ameritech.net> wrote in message
> >
> > >news:ABF7D93B-F2BD-46D3-9780-CDA8565FA8D2@microsoft.com...
> >
> > > > John,
> > > > You missed that Graham wrote one for the 2003 version as well.
> > > > > > > > al
> >
> > > > "John... Visio MVP" <lancu... RemoveThis @stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
> > > >news:9EE30B5C-ACCE-464E-933D-883D3D90088E@microsoft.com...
> > > >> I've been hanging around since before version 1, so I am sort of the
> > > >> unofficial historian. DVS was part of the official manual that came
> > > >> with
> > > >> Visio, back in the old days when software did come with manuals. The
> > > >> book
> > > >> was written by the Visio team and Chris Roth, the Visio Guy, had a hand
> > > >> in it. His name is mentioned in the authors section in the earlier
> > > >> versions, but that section was dropped by the time the book was updated
> > > >> for 4.1. (and yes I do have a shelf load of Visio books that came with
> > > >> the product) One of my early complaints was that the version number did
> > > >> not appear on the spine.
> >
> > > >> John...
> >
> > > >> "WapperDude" <WapperD... RemoveThis @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > > >>news:CCC157BA-EC28-4E16-8DCC-99BE614A02A5@microsoft.com...
> > > >>> Interesting comment about DVS. It rang a bell, and I searched through
> > > >>> my
> > > >>> files of antiquity, and yes, I have a paperback book, Developing Visio
> > > >>> Solutions. It came with Visio Technical 4.1. No author though. Seems
> > > >>> to
> > > >>> cover much or most of the basic stuff. The following link will take
> > > >>> you
> > > >>> to
> > > >>> the website version,
> > > >>>http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa245244(office.10).aspx, which
> > > >>> is
> > > >>> under V2002. See my topic referal in 1st post, which includes John's
> > > >>> website
> > > >>> -- has a ton of examples.!
>
(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:00 am
Post subject: Re: VBA/Visio course recommendation? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
On Sep 2, 4:32 pm, WapperDude <WapperD....RemoveThis@discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote:
> Did you want the PDF to make a hardcopy? If just to have an online
> reference, and either John or Al may correct me, but this link, which I'll
> provide again for convenience,http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa245244(office.10).aspx, does take
> you to the DVS material.
That's the MSDN website I referred to in my previous post (below).
It's easier to search an entire document for words/phrases if the
document isn't distributed over many web pages, which is the only
reason I would be looking for a PDF. Being a newb in different areas
of knowledge, I find myself doing such searches all the time. I've
requested the hard copy, but am wondering whether it will have any
added value over the online content.
I certainly understand what you say below about needing to learn
language and the tool or environment (Visio) in which you use the
language.
> What Al says about VBA as a framework is quite true. My VBA experience came
> out of Excel. The VBA methodology is same for Visio, but Visio has so much
> more, that the specific details soon diverge. Certainly, knowing Visio is
> fundamental, but when you start wading thru all of methods, etc. that Visio
> has, it can be quite a daunting experience. It's sort of a 3-pronged issue:
> 1.) know Visio, 2.) know VBA, and 3.) know VBA as it relates to Visio
> (because there is a huge "language" set within the confines of Visio).
> Fortunately, it breaks down into some standard VBA structure that,
> theoretically, makes producing code easier. Lest that scare you, you do not
> have to be an expert with infinite knowledge, to be able to produce
> reasonable, working code. But, you do need to be patient.
>
> HTH
> Wapperdude
>
>
>
> "Paul" wrote:
> > What you say makes much sense, Al. Will seek out a VBA course.
>
> > I've tried to track down a PDF copy of "Developing Microsoft Visio
> > Solutions" to no avail. It would complement the MSDN website quite
> > nicely, as it is easier to search the whole document for words/
> > phrases, and presumably has an index. Easier to search than a hard
> > copy, too (though I have ordered the book). It seems kind of odd that
> > it isn't online.
>
> > On Sep 2, 9:32 am, "AlEdlund" <edl....RemoveThis@ameritech.net> wrote:
> > > IMHO VBA merely provides a framework for describing how to work with
> > > information, the challange is in understanding the knowledge space that
> > > you're working in. Regarding VBA, a standard introductory course to visual
> > > basic should offer all that you need . I haven't seen anyone offer a
> > > combination of visual basic focused on office products. Even the Office
> > > Connections Conference usually focus' on word/excel/powerpoint.
>
> > > Regarding education relative to Visio, I've seen some consulting firms that
> > > offer it. Visio is a very rich environment with a unique set of features and
> > > functions that should be understood first. Where the four primary books that
> > > John mentioned have some VBA code in them, their primary function is to
> > > first teach Visio. There are numerous examples in these forums of those that
> > > have built "smart shapes" using just the shapesheet within the tool and not
> > > adding a lot of code.
>
> > > Al
>
> > > "Paul" <Paul.Domas....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:94d36e2d-1d5f-418b-aa49-a1ed5f8b33b7@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com....
> > > Thanks for the references, Wapper, John, and Al.
>
> > > Would you know of any actual courses (possibly multilple days) to get
> > > someone jumpstarted? Sitting down with a book presumes realistic
> > > scheduling and scope of mainline activities (which isn't always in
> > > one's control). In the absence of such, it isn't all that fine to be
> > > doing other stuff (or actually, there is, but there are other things
> > > competing for that time!). However, it is OK to take a time-out to
> > > formally get a jumpstart via courses.
>
> > > If there are no courses that are visio-oriented, what Excel-oriented
> > > course would minimize the gap in getting started in visio? Would it
> > > be overly presumptuous to also have the criteria of looking for a
> > > course for those who haven't yet picked up VBA on the streets of
> > > Excel, and have a intermediate knowledge of Excel as a spreadsheet
> > > rather than a programming tool? I.e. same degree of knowledge depth
> > > as one might have of older spreadsheet programs such as sc on unix,
> > > Quatro, and older applications on the venerable CBM machines....
>
> > > On Aug 30, 5:14 pm, "John... Visio MVP" <lancu....RemoveThis@stonehenge.ca>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > We were discussing DVS. Graham's books go beyond DVS so they require that
> > > > you are acquianted with DVS.
>
> > > > As to Graham's 2003 version, the SIGNED version is sitting within three
> > > > feet
> > > > of this keyboard, next to his other two books. There is also space next to
> > > > them for his next edition.
>
> > > > John...
>
> > > > "AlEdlund" <edl....RemoveThis@ameritech.net> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:ABF7D93B-F2BD-46D3-9780-CDA8565FA8D2@microsoft.com...
>
> > > > > John,
> > > > > You missed that Graham wrote one for the 2003 version as well.
> > > > > > > > > > al
>
> > > > > "John... Visio MVP" <lancu....RemoveThis@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
> > > > >news:9EE30B5C-ACCE-464E-933D-883D3D90088E@microsoft.com...
> > > > >> I've been hanging around since before version 1, so I am sort of the
> > > > >> unofficial historian. DVS was part of the official manual that came
> > > > >> with
> > > > >> Visio, back in the old days when software did come with manuals. The
> > > > >> book
> > > > >> was written by the Visio team and Chris Roth, the Visio Guy, had a hand
> > > > >> in it. His name is mentioned in the authors section in the earlier
> > > > >> versions, but that section was dropped by the time the book was updated
> > > > >> for 4.1. (and yes I do have a shelf load of Visio books that came with
> > > > >> the product) One of my early complaints was that the version number did
> > > > >> not appear on the spine.
>
> > > > >> John...
>
> > > > >> "WapperDude" <WapperD....RemoveThis@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > > > >>news:CCC157BA-EC28-4E16-8DCC-99BE614A02A5@microsoft.com...
> > > > >>> Interesting comment about DVS. It rang a bell, and I searched through
> > > > >>> my
> > > > >>> files of antiquity, and yes, I have a paperback book, Developing Visio
> > > > >>> Solutions. It came with Visio Technical 4.1. No author though. Seems
> > > > >>> to
> > > > >>> cover much or most of the basic stuff. The following link will take
> > > > >>> you
> > > > >>> to
> > > > >>> the website version,
> > > > >>>http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa245244(office.10).aspx, which
> > > > >>> is
> > > > >>> under V2002. See my topic referal in 1st post, which includes John's
> > > > >>> website
> > > > >>> -- has a ton of examples.!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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